Domestic / cross cultural issues - Thai / Foreigner concerns

Why do ONLY foreigners get special promotion?

By Anonymous, Created on: 28/01/2008, Last updated on: 05/02/2014

» The advertising board on the way to Airport is shown "Foreigner Zone.. Buying house (somewhere around Bangkok..) Foreigner, with Special Price!!" I know the property company may want to attract foreigners to invest in property in Thailand. But, what about Thais who also want to own the...

• fast eddy commented : Wow! What a great topic Yes VP welcome to Thailand - the land of 'special everything for non-thais'. The special price for the houses in a 'forgein zone will be hugely inflated as is the price for entering the Chiang Mai Safari Park, National Parks and Temples when charging a non-Thai! I too met the special price for foreigners a couple of weeks ago. I was informed that the electric sign I errected would incurr tax as would a sign in Thai. However, my sign would be taxed at four times the rate of a Thai sign as it is written in English! The trick to do is to involve yourself in transactions as a seller rather than always the victim (buyer). That way you can pass on the special prices you pay to your Thai customers. Make Budhism work for you - they say its a circle so just keep passing the special prices back to the natives when you can - rule no.1 'there is always a victim. Rule no. 2 'don't be it!' The next thing to do is to shop around! Best to use a Thai friend to help you to 'negotiate' the price. When this is settled then you step in and pay-up - just enjoy the 'great wailing and nashing of teeth' when the vendor realises they missed out on yet another 'special price'! Having said all of that, there are areas of Thailand where they don't price discriminate and treat non-thais as the would thais. Try to settle in one of these places rather than the big cities where you will probably spend most of your times as a 'special price' victim. Finally, to 'watcher'. You can't be serious! Japan is an extremely rascist country I lived there full time for five years and my brother over 20 years and friends are getting up to their quarter century of living there full time! The word you need to use is xenophopic with a capital X! You must have seen the big black buses crawling around the center of Tokyo! These huge buses are draped in the rising sun flag with blacked out windows and manned by extreme right wing Japs dressed in black - belowing through loud speakers that all Japan's woes are caused by foreigners and that they should all be kicked out! Somebody pointed out that Thailand is not really a budhist country and is basically animist with a smatering of hindu. I would agree with this - you only have to look at the rush to buy into the special medalions produced in Nakon Sii Thammarat last year to understand how supersticious the Thais are. They even get their lottery numbers from looking at trees and (get this) pigs! I have no problem with this whatsoever as the cub Kao lady (the mobile shop) in my village in Nonthaburi won the lottery twice by such non-scientific methods. What was annoying was that she bought a ticket numbered the same as my wife's motorbike registration (which she had seen in her dream the night before) and won. Not only that but a few months later she saw the registration of my pick-up truck in a dream and won again!! Thais do sometimes suffer from the 'special prices' though. An example that springs to mind is the special prices promted by some five star hotels and resorts which have deals for tourists but not for the natives. I have read of this a number of times over the years but having said that they get their own back by charging higher prices at other resorts for tourists when compared to natives - see! You've got to get yourself into the trading chain somehow or you will forever end up the victim For as a Jewish friend of mine once said, 'Why did God invent Gentiles? Someone has to pay retail!!' cheers Fast Eddy

• 81 replies, 319,453 views

Domestic / cross cultural issues - Thai / Foreigner concerns

About Face.

By Sean Moran, Created on: 14/10/2008, Last updated on: 13/04/2014

» One olde axiom that comes to mind is, '[i:3b539sim]If you can't say something nice, then keep your mouth s.h.u.t.[/i:3b539sim]' Just a thread that pertains to one of the cultural differences one might notice in venturing from a typical 'westernised' society of the assertive kind to the shores of...

• Sean Moran commented : [quote="pachangamac042":11qlyck6]Sorry mate, but I never understood this face loosing thing in Thailand. Were I come from, you lose your face once and forever, but in Thailand it seems that they can easily lose face once a day and it seems to be fine. Another thing is, that it seems that stealing money, scaming people, ripping you off and so on, as long as you do it to a foreigner, does not make you lose face.[/quote:11qlyck6] I guess I know what you are talking about with regards to loss of face in Yorkshire, and I can vouch for the fact that after two motorcycle accidents in Rayong and Nonthaburi respectively I have lost quite a bit of the face you refer to. However, in this case, it might be better for you to exchange the word "face" for "pride" back in Birmingham. I hope that clarifies the meaning behind the thread topic. Regarding the problems that you have experienced with that smalll minority of con-artists, all I can s.u.g.g.e.s.t (sorry, censorship gone wild it seems) is that you get out of Nana as fast as the Ekamai bus will carry you and find a place where tourists are less likely to have been, and practice your gor-aa-gaa, kor-aa-kaa pronunciation until you pood pasa Thai geng maak. You've possibly been unlucky to have met unscrupulous people if anyone has stolen from you in Thailand, but without finite details, there's no way of telling for sure. In my time in Thailand, I can only remember the honesty of the Thai people who have even returned thousands of baht to me for medical care that I felt obliged to pay for after that most recent loss of face, in which they insisted of returning my money and treating my injuries free of charge, but they tell me I pood pasa Thai geng maak as soon as I regain conssiousness. I must admit that I do not, and that is just one more example of the good people trying to help a poor motorcycle accident victim on an hospital stretcher gain back some of his lost face.

• Sean Moran commented : [quote="HybridEm":2483d17x] Sean, we will have many a-beer when the time comes! Im just waiting for some vacay-time and then i'm back to bkk!!! Until then, you stay sharp! one[/quote:2483d17x] I just had a thought, but don't worry because I've just opened my first beer for the day and that should help overcome the pain in another hour or so, providing I don't think anything else before becoming properly anhebriated. This comparison of the concepts of face with that of integrity is an absolute gem. Yet I wonder also if the white-lies that go with it might be related to the preservation of somebody else's integrity, which carries with it a good degree of social harmony along with the possibility of corruption if taken advantage of, perhaps? I'm not familiar enough with Thai culture to really know how that might work, but I agree that there is a good deal of corruption in Thailand, and that can make for good deals or bad deals IMHO. I've always been lucky with the traffic cops on my old Suzuki, although I did get done out of 400 baht once on the Honda on my way down to Rayong from Nonthaburi a couple of years back. The bike was fully loaded with rucksacks and stuff, so I wasn't gonna leave my bike on the side of the road to go to the cop shop to fight it. The tea-money cop even gave me back 100 baht change because I didn't have any small notes on me. That's corruption but it was done in such a decent way that it was almost worth the money, although not a good thing to have happen everyday on a tourist-visa teachers' salary. On the other hand, I remember the best traffic cop I ever encountered on the road back from Khorat to Nonthaburi. Somewhere in central Saraburi from memory. Hot day, mid-morning, bike loaded with rucksacks once again, and after confirming that I had the right papers and all, he handed me a fresh water bottle to get a well-needed drink. "Wow!" I thought, and gratefully took a swig and went to pass it back. "No no!" he said. "You." He wanted me to keep the whole bottle of water on the ride back. Another example of saving face, but his gift was intended to save mine, although the fact that I still remember that gesture three years later might add a bit to his too, in some karmic way or other? Perhaps one of the reasons I enjoy the corruption in Thailand is that I can see it straight out, clear as mud. Here in Australia it's done so cleverly that I often don't even know the joke until after the punch-line is over and the fat lady has sung, and it's never very harmonic.

• Sean Moran commented : [quote="fast eddy":5am34j3s]Mate, you're so right! It's a cow with a Thai on the back For the life of me, I fail to see the correlation between a man riding a cow and a man who fights fair - one to one as opposed to the Thai way of getting a gang of your mates together and catching your victim unawares by using mob violence! Maybe you're going by your own culture which is pretty much the same as mine (Diggers/English). In our cultures you would probably be spot on but not out here, Sean (live here long enough and you'll get the picture) As for Thai boxing - it stays in the ring for betting purposes only! It's a sport and not a way of life out here! It's certainly not an example of the usual ways Thais set about sorting out any altercation! Again, you would have to live out here to know that so you are excused As for the face, I was talking from the Thai perspective. They (The Thais) use face as a cover up for a multitude of sins. It's just the way things are done out here. I guess as they don't have the Christian guilt complex shoved down their throats day and night, telling the truth is not seen or regarded a virtue! Thais value expediency! over our versions of honour! Good luck with the cricket - maybe your lot might want to try their hand at riding cows? Happy New Year [/quote:5am34j3s] We might leave the buffalo example for now. I guess you have a valid point. Must be just lucky myself, that I never got to meet your friends or walk in your neighbourhood, and probably have some kind of rose-coloured glasses view on the thread topic. In Nonthaburi, face equates fairly closely with honour and integrity in general, although there are a range of different traits and states across such a large population. Although I'm enjoying the rejuvenated discussion, I am having trouble quite working out whether you are setting an example the stereotypical misguided attitude of the american tourist (which might be offensive to some readers - not us) or you have been set upon by a gang of hooligans once and have an axe to grind. May I ask a couple of quick questons to verify your original post. Ima take it more seriously now seeing the cricket is looking like a runaway RSA win. 1. How does the concept of Face provide for irresponsibility? I would have thought that the opposite applies. 2. With these gangsters, what were you engaged in at the time when you were set upon? Where was it? I don't want to make assuptions but it does beg a question on your own behaviour if you have been so badly mistreated. I don't want to ask personal questions but you seem to have had a bit of a raw deal which reflects in your opinion, and I'm at a loss for the reasons why you feel so hardly done by, although I really appreciate the example. It's interesting anyway. Probably be a good thing for me to go back and revise the entire thread because it was so long ago, and then you replied and then I took so long to even notice your reply etc. etc. I need to go back over HybridEM's stuff again because he had things worked out reasonably. Give me 20 minutes to run through the thread again and I apologise for having neglected to keep up with this one over the months. -----ooOoo----- Whoa the memories! Okay. Sorry. I remember a bit more now, and why I was prompted towards the equation of face with responsibility. It has something to do with it, apparently. I'm still not quite clear on how they relate. All I can say after going over all that old stuff is that perhaps like a coin, a face has two sides? --> Would it be fair to say - like as in a good and a bad side?

• 61 replies, 76,687 views

Thai airports, trains, buses, public transport

Operation OF The Taxi Service In Bangkok

By antonabe, Created on: 21/10/2008, Last updated on: 10/05/2009

» I wish to share my experience of the Taxi service in Bangkok.The service from the Airport to the Hotels is excellent and is no cause for concern.However if one to get about in Bangkok from the Hotels to the different shopping molls etc the Taxi driver refuse to oprate the Meter although they have...

• Sean Moran commented : [quote="Dave Masman":3w4pydej]For the sheer quantity and value of taxis, Bangkok is very unique and for that we should be thankful. Most drivers get us where we need to -at least if you have the minimal language skills required. I really can't say enough about the abundance of this service. [/quote:3w4pydej] That's about the way I look at it too. Maybe the service differs depending on the language skills of the passenger, or maybe the bad guys don't prey on able-bodied tourists with two good legs, but I can only remember two interesting times out of around 100 or more legitimate meter taxi rides. Usually never a problem at all, and a great opportunity to practice one's language skills - works both ways sometimes. One was on July 4th 2006, and it was all over before I even got in the cab. First time I went for a walk down Soi Cowboy and I'd caught the cab from Nonthaburi that night for somewhere around 250 baht inlcuding a 50 baht tip from memory. Going home I came across a cab right on the Asoke side of Cowboy and all I said was "pai nonthaburi mai" before the reply came back as jet roi (700thb). My last words before crossing the street to find a meter cab down on Sukh were "khun bah mai" which in hindsight, probably wasn't quite the right way to explain my decision not to accept the ride, but I never heard gunfire as I walked away so I guess the driver saw the funny side. Lucky for me. The other time was a completely different problem. I was the cause, but it wasn't me who suffered the cost. I was in the process of ferrying my suitcase back from the office to my apartment. Only around 2km up Chaengwattana, I'd usually walk but the suitcase was fairiy cumbersome and the castors probably wouldn't have lasted the distance, and besides the meter taxi was under 50 baht. So there I am standing on the side of the road with the suitcase at my feet looking out for a passing taxi. A taxi pulled up around ten minutes later, and the driver got out to open the boot (trunk) for me to put the case. Lo and behold if a cop doesn't arrive just before we got in the cab and booked the poor bloke 400 baht for parking in a bus stop. This was his reward for stopping to accepting a 50 baht fare within walking distance. I noticed that his face didn't match the ID photo in the cab, and assumed he was just filling in on the weekend for a friend of his to try to make some extra cash, or something like that? What a rotten weekend he had to live through because stupid me didn't know the right place to stand on the side of the road to hail a taxi. I paid the poor fellow 200 baht for the 50 baht fare. haa-sip/haa-sip, song-roi/song-roi.

• 9 replies, 16,243 views

Living in Thailand - adjusting + settling in

Three Most Important Words.

By Sean Moran, Created on: 07/11/2008, Last updated on: 13/02/2014

» In pasa Thai, almost every tourist learns how to say hello: [i:3qlpnlz8]Sawat dee, kap/kaa.[/i:3qlpnlz8] (kap and kaa are gender-related) Thank you is quite simple, although there is a colloquial version: [i:3qlpnlz8]Khop khun, kap/kaa.[/i:3qlpnlz8] (formal) [i:3qlpnlz8]Khop jai.[/i:3qlpnlz8]...

• Sean Moran commented : I might have told this old story before here already but I can't remember. I've told it before somewhere... ... about dogs and tones and girlfriends and vocal errors in pronunciation ... So there I was at my favourite restaurant in Nonthaburi, Muno's, waiting for my girlfriend to arrive, and I knew the waiter well enough for those last few weeks since he started there, and he was concerned that I had not ordered a meal after 30 minutes of sitting there, peering over the balcony and drinking Singha, and all I managed to say was "Pooying maa cha-cha" which can mean many things depending on the way it is voiced. I got the impression by the way he frowned and then smiled that while trying to explain to him that I was waiting to order until my girlfriend arrived, (and that she was 15 minutes late), that I'd just told him that women are slow dogs. I think that must be why he almost laughed, but I don't know if he was thinking of his own girlfriend at that moment.

• 40 replies, 85,152 views

Domestic / cross cultural issues - Thai / Foreigner concerns

IS Thailand Safe?

By Wally, Created on: 08/11/2008, Last updated on: 07/12/2008

» Thailand is relatively safe, many of the statistics you cite are largely Thai-Thai. All countries have areas best avoided, Thailand is no different, but for the most part I think it is quite safe. Mind you this will vary depending whether you are in Chiang Mai or Pattaya.

• Sean Moran commented : [quote="rogera":1vt5whvb] Is Thailand Safe? For Whom? Not too safe for those children on the motercycle or you if you start waving your arms over your head close to electrical wires. If you run away from, instead of toward the sound of gunfire, you too might live as I do here in wonderful Thailand. Free of bulletholes. In fact, I have never had a gun fired at me, here. I have been visiting and living here for over 44 years without undue problems IF I keep my nose out of other peoples problems. When I first came here, the price of a killing was $100.. Now I think it has gone up to $5 or 600. Keep to your own affairs, live long and prosper.[/quote:1vt5whvb] Funny that, but when you wrote "...Safe For Whom? ", I first read it as "Safe FROM Whom?" If you're 6'4" and 350lbs and you're walking across a footbridge over the thanon to the skytrain and you see a friend down in the street below and you get excited and wave your arms up in the air and jump up to say hello and you accidentally put your fingernails through the insulation of a 440v 3-phase overhead cable and electrocute yourself and unconsciously tumble over the edge of the bridge and down towards the macadam, and there happens to be a young family of five who can't afford a car yet riding back from the market with a week's supply of shopping on the back of an old Yamaha stuck in traffic at the red light below and you fall on them, you could hurt the poor little kiddies, couldn't you? I'd have to agree that the ONLY place I feel unsafe in Thailand is riding on the bike into or out of Bangkok, and it's the one place in the World where I'd always take a taxi and leave the bike back up in Nonthaburi, except on those odd occasions when I'd have to ride through Bangkok on the way out of town, or back from the train station once. Funny thing is, I never get lost in a cab, and I never get lost on the bike north of Chaengwattana, east of Samut Prakan, or west of Ratchaburi, day or night, I never lose my sense of direction in a new soi, but every single time I've had to ride through the Big Mango on a bike, I've continued to do some kind of 360 act without fail, and think I've made it to Ratchaburi until I pass by the Victory Monument again, or think I must be just crossing the railway line on the way to Sattahip, and then do a lap of Chitralada Palace, and happens every single time I try to find my way through Bangkok on a bike in a hurry. Always have the Michelin mapbook and the Lonely Planet right there in the top rucksack, but no matter how easy those maps make it to find your way around the Chantaburi markets on an overcast day, it just don't work for me in Krungthep. It's safe, but it's not much fun at all when it takes me all day to ride from Pak Kret to Bang Kapi.

• 13 replies, 20,072 views

Thai airports, trains, buses, public transport

Taxi Alightment Protocol.

By Sean Moran, Created on: 17/11/2008, Last updated on: 21/11/2008

» Please be careful when getting out of a taxi in congested traffic such as central Bangkok. In the olden days, cars built with the door hinges at the back and the latch at the front were called "suicide doors" but conversely the doors on a typical taxi cab can be like homicide doors if you're...

• Sean Moran commented : Certainly do seem to be more than a few manic motorcyclists getting around on the footpaths of Nonthaburi at high speed to the point where I feel it wise for pedestrians to purchase sunglasses with rear-view lenses to avoid the neck strain that goes with repeatedly having to look behind you when you're walking down the street. Main reason I'd rather buy a bike - it's safer on the road and much drier for navigating long deep puddles after the last rain shower if you can stick your feet up on the handlebars! Actually I can't quite remember why I started this topic now, but it was something to do with occupational health and safety procedures and not really relevant to the realities of life. I hope we can keep in communication over the rest of the year and I'm usually here every morning from around 05:00 BKK time, and I have email and phone numbers and Skype as well, so there's a few media by which to maintain communication over such a distance. How's the recovery going this week?

• 8 replies, 10,160 views

Thai airports, trains, buses, public transport

State Railway of Thailand (SRT)

By sulasno, Created on: 28/01/2009, Last updated on: 29/01/2009

» SRT to offer e-tickets By: BangkokPost.com Published: 28/01/2009 at 02:53 PM People will be able to buy railway tickets online, starting Sunday, according to State Railway of Thailand (SRT) governor Yutthana Thapcharoen. He said the online ticketing system will initially be tested for 16 routes for...

• Sean Moran commented : [quote="sulasno":1xw4v5z9]SRT to offer e-tickets By: BangkokPost.com Published: 28/01/2009 at 02:53 PM People will be able to buy railway tickets online, starting Sunday, according to State Railway of Thailand (SRT) governor Yutthana Thapcharoen. He said the online ticketing system will initially be tested for 16 routes for six months, and believed it can help increase the number of railway passengers by 30 per cent. Some of the routes include Bangkok-Chiang Mai, Bangkok-Ubon Ratchathani, Bangkok-Trang, Bangkok-Nakhon Si Thammarat, Bangkok- Sungai Kolok, and Bangkok-Butterworth. The SRT is also experimenting with using smart cards to buy railway tickets in convenience stores, Mr Yutthana said. Starting Sunday, people can buy railway tickets online by clicking on the ‘E-Star’ banner on the SRT website at http://www.railway.co.th ================================================================================================= has anyone use the railways to travel around Bangkok? appreciate any comments[/quote:1xw4v5z9] Would Hat Yai to Bangkok count as travelling around Bangkok? Having ridden the Honda from Nonthaburi down to Nakhon, and then Hat Yai, it seemed at the time to be possibly safer as well as cheaper than stopping for gallons more benzine all the way back up the peninsular. Not necessarily... I didn't expect to pay more for freighting the bike than I did for my own seat. After arriving at the station, the bike was weighed and freight priced. For myself the fare was 905 thb. For the bike, 916. Perhaps it was less risky catching a train from Hat Yai than riding a motorbike (arguably), but the Honda was more comfortable and far more friendly. It's a long train running all the way from Hat Yai : [img:1xw4v5z9]http://www.geocities.com/smoranean/img/gall/hatyaist02.jpg[/img:1xw4v5z9] [i:1xw4v5z9]Hat Yai Station looking towards Bangkok, September 14th, 2006.[/i:1xw4v5z9]

• 1 replies, 3,446 views

Domestic / cross cultural issues - Thai / Foreigner concerns

men in tight brown shirts and related stories

By fast eddy, Created on: 05/02/2009, Last updated on: 06/02/2009

» Todya's opinion page saw a highly charged discussion on Thailand's thin brown line (well except for those in the 'oh my God it's 40 inches' weight control scheme) and their creative policing of the realm. I'm sure most of us have experienced twilight zone mini-episodes with these gentlemen and a couple...

• sulasno commented : [quote="fast eddy":gf2c2q2p]Todya's opinion page saw a highly charged discussion on Thailand's thin brown line (well except for those in the 'oh my God it's 40 inches' weight control scheme) and their creative policing of the realm. I'm sure most of us have experienced twilight zone mini-episodes with these gentlemen and a couple of us thought it might be interesting or amusing to share our own personal experiences/kodak moments! Off the top of my head, one comes to mind when I was travelling to school from Nonthaburi to Patumwan. I was driving in the vicinity of Samsen train station when I really hit the morning commuting traffic at a set of lights. the road was running parallel with the train tracks and I was following the same direction into the heart of Bangkok. All three lanes where full of traffic and eventually we got the green light to set off. I was flagged over by a cop standing on the other side of the crossroads - along the route I was taking. He informed me that the left hand lane was for those only turning left across the tracks - not to continue straight across the junction. I pointed out that there was no sign to that effect to which he replied that the markings were painted on the road -the same one that had been covered in cars and buses tail to tail when I drew up to the lights . My protestations went unheeded and I had to pay up a 200bt fine . The problem? I only had a 500bt note and he only had 100bt change. However, in true Thai style he winked and told me to wait. He went back into the traffic and stopped another motorist, fined him two hundred baht and added that to the 100 he already had to give me my 300bt change and waved me back out into the traffic! Priceless and well worth the 200bt fine just for the story Would be interested to hear from the rest of you - it could make a good book. Cheers Fast Eddy[/quote:gf2c2q2p] hmmmmm ......................... didn't you try to bargain it down to just 100 baht (just like true Thai style) ? I had something similar; A 500 baht to pay a 100 baht "fine" told Bangkok's finest to hang on while I had to p e e (was stopped at an intersection with a petrol kiosk nearby) got change for my 500 into 5 red ones and toss one into the drawer of his table

• 7 replies, 7,650 views

Thai airports, trains, buses, public transport

Tips on Driving in Thailand

By villager, Created on: 22/03/2009, Last updated on: 06/04/2009

» [quote="kants_clone":mwugfeke]Thai Driving Test Applicants for a driving licence must be 18 years old. The Department of Land Transport Office processes all of Thailand's driving licences. Go in person to the nearest local office to complete the paperwork and get a driving licence. For...

• Sean Moran commented : [quote:3th949o8]by villager on Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:25 am ABSOLUTELY spot on Sean, if you want to avoid an head on collision here you have to look to your left first and right second, as some grinning maniac could well be turning right on YOUR side of the road!,and sometimes in the dark with no lights on!!. [/quote:3th949o8] What I found rather amazing was the therapeutic benefit. No kidding! I had a sort of mild whiplash for the seven months since my first motorbike accident. In Australia I could barely move my neck more than a little bit up or down or left or right and that was still a big hassle the day I got on the plane to get back to Thailand. Then, after three days of walking around Nonthaburi, no more whiplash! This was because of the need to look in all directions at once. Funny how the body will adapt to the requirements of its environment, isn't it?

• 9 replies, 14,577 views

Domestic / cross cultural issues - Thai / Foreigner concerns

America bashing at Esplanade Mall

By gohmer, Created on: 09/05/2010, Last updated on: 11/06/2011

» I putting this post up because it is related to international relationships with American citizens living and visiting Thailand. It illustrated to me that little is known about America by most people in Thailand, in fact, I think that few in the world truly understand what America is about and how...

• garyinthailand commented : gohmer, was that the Esplanade Mall on Ratchadapisek Road, or the one in Nonthaburi (per Wikipedia)? I ask because I'll be in Nonthaburi this weekend for the Deep Purple concert and I'd really, really like to get one or more of those shirts. Thanks in advance!

• 119 replies, 154,424 views

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