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    Sin sod and in-law

    By Anonymous, Created on: 13/09/2006, Last updated on: 25/12/2008

    » I supported my gf through colleage and Uni (her parents are not rich), now that she has graduated, i wanted to marry her. But her parents are asking for 1Mil Baht for dowry. I had the money through hard earned savings (i am just a salaried worker), but i find the dowry excessive. I am afraid this...

    • Anonymous commented : Certainly some interesting, diverse and extreme views have been expressed. I think the references to the family "getting over it" are in many cases the Thai family being polite to not cause problems with the new son-in-law, even though he shows no manners or respect. None of the stories match my circumstances or experiences. I think a lot comes down to the social, moral and financial circumstances of the family that you marry into. This is the whole story and nothing else matters. There are good and bad in every country, and good and bad in every family. Perhaps, if I had married into a ratbag family, I would have acted differently. We married a little over a year ago and certainly the bride price was a big problem to me in the early stages of our wedding planning. The whole concept of sinsod was as much against my cultural background as it was part of her culture. In her family's social group it would have been a major embarrassment for a daughter to marry without bringing a bride price into the family. I think it is how the matter is handled by the family, that makes it acceptable or unacceptable to a foreigner. My wife was well educated by her family and always had a well paying job. She always had always contributed "Mother's milk" to her family since she left school and got a job. In our case, my wife and her mother opened a joint bank account and the 250,000 baht sinsod was placed in that account. We also made a gift to her parents of a portion of the wedding present cash we were given, and that was banked in the account as well. I paid for the wedding for some 300 guests but I insisted on some control over our budget so that I would get no nasty surprises and they controlled that part very well. I also bought about 30,000 baht in gold, some of which is for me to wear, not her. We have the gold in New Zealand and we pay a slightly increased "Mother's milk" payment each month, now she is not there to help with family matters. She works part time and contributes to the mothers milk and the housekeeping budget while she attends school to improve her English. If we ever separate, she gets to keep the sinsod money. Because we stay together, at some point her mother will die of old age and the bank account will default to my wife, which in that event, means us. I feel that both sides of the family have had their culture and their pride respected over the wedding arrangements and is my belief that the family genuinely likes me and respects me. There have been no demands for money for any silly reasons. But as there are several children in the extended family attending university, we and other more affluent members of the family have all given money to help out. In our case the amount has been much less than some others in the family pay because my wife has had some expensive medical treatment and the family respect our financial situation. I think that in certain parts of Thailand, many families consider the daughter to be a cash cow to be sold as often as possible for as much as possible. Many writers have had disturbing experiences with greedy low-class people. But then these people live in every country and I would not marry into a family like that in my own country. I certainly would not go to another country to marry into a "trailer trash" family. The solution is simple. Marry a girl from a "Jai Dee" family and you will have no problems. The trick is, it is difficult for a Farang tourist to meet really good Thai girls.

    • 77 replies, 64,745 views

    Forum

    is this a scam?

    By Anonymous, Created on: 02/12/2007, Last updated on: 23/01/2008

    » Can someone help me with this please? My father is an American who went overseas to work. He is making pretty good money. He has been there for about 4 years and has traveled to other countries when on his r&r. Thailand has become his favorite vacation spot. He is 52 years old and divorced...

    • Anonymous commented : Erica - "Jai yen yen" : stay calm as the Thais stay. Sorry to have so obviously got under your skin. "Chauvinism" or "male-dominated social make-up". You tell me the difference : you're the expert !

    • 66 replies, 21,624 views

    Forum

    About Face.

    By Sean Moran, Created on: 14/10/2008, Last updated on: 13/04/2014

    » One olde axiom that comes to mind is, '[i:3b539sim]If you can't say something nice, then keep your mouth s.h.u.t.[/i:3b539sim]' Just a thread that pertains to one of the cultural differences one might notice in venturing from a typical 'westernised' society of the assertive kind to the shores of...

    • klauskent commented : Face in Thai Culture Randall Moss said, “Understanding Thai culture is quite irrelevant. I lived in Thaland for three years. I have eyes and ears, and it does not take a mental giant to see how hypocritical the saving face philosophy is. in principal I understand the idea quite well. It really comes down to saving ones respect and moral integrity. Someone tell me how this is practiced in Thailand as a good guiding principle.” I suggest the following: Any one precept of “Thai culture” (like saving face) cannot be understood without an understanding of how that one precept is interrelated with the entire Thai cultural system. When you understand the whole, you can better comprehend the seemingly incomprehensible pieces. Thai culture (when adhered to) is a functioning and viable system with its own checks, balances, and leveling mechanisms built in. If you analyze the culture long enough you will see that many Thai cultural precepts are actually the cure and not the problem. I think Randall’s problem is that he got lost somewhere between the emic and etic approach. As an insider, (Thai or Farang) a person may save face and slither away without histrionics and a mad display, but that person knows full well that there are at least 5 other Thai precepts that will hold him (or her) responsible at a later date. First and foremost the person that has (for the moment) saved face will be subjected to the insidious trampling of the Thai rumor mill. This is a much worse fate than loosing face in public. *The transgressor will face humiliation among the local social network. This has economic as well as social repercussions, especially in a society that is communal based rather than a western model where independence is the norm. Thais live or die socially and or economically on patronage networks and family ties. Once they are excluded they will wither. Even the richest Thais I know, if they are not “accepted” will pretty much live in purgatory on a daily basis. I think the problem here is that Farangs don’t know how to react properly within the cultural contexts they are placed. When a Thai does something incongruent with what was agreed upon, don’t jump up and down like a mad dog. Do what a well cultured and mannered Thai person would do. 1) Act calmly, speak quietly, and simply Never do business or socialize with them again, exclude them forever. 2) If you see them again, act polite, smile as if nothing is wrong, and continue on your way. If they inquire or ask something of you- make a polite excuse. They will FULLY understand what has happened. In the end, the Thai smile is a formidable weapon when applied correctly. If you are truly wronged, feed the story to the Thai gossip mill. The transgressor will loose more than face. Once they commit enough transgressions they will be ostracized thereby loosing their access to wealth, prestige, and power. But you positively must make sure you hold them to the precepts of their own culture in order to be effective, and you the Farang must have a pretty good standing in the community and be somewhat well respected for this to be effective. How is all this beneficial? Well, for one, saving face is conflict avoidance. This means tempers remain calm (Jai Yen) and there are no acts of violence and or subsequent violent reprisals. The transgressors generally get what’s coming to them (som nam na) and we can all act as civilized Humans and not mad apes. Additionally, There are some words in English that do not have a corollary word in the Thai lexicon. The verb, “to patronize” for example, the Thais I have spoken to, have a very hard time understanding the meaning of that word is. Words and categories are man made referents. Thus the comprehension and adherence to their resultant conditions is culture bound. Expecting your average Thai to adhere to social systems that are largely unknown to them, borders on Racism and a form of Neo-colonialism. However, I would imagine that Randall, by saying, “Understanding Thai culture is quite irrelevant” and then saying, “saving face is hypocritical”, rather misses the boat im afraid. How does he hope to understand Thai culture if he believes it is “irrelevant” to understand Thai culture? His statement is an ad absurdum. *[Please note- these social norms do not apply to bar girls but rather your average Thai person in your average context and setting]

    • 61 replies, 76,687 views

    Forum

    Three Most Important Words.

    By Sean Moran, Created on: 07/11/2008, Last updated on: 13/02/2014

    » In pasa Thai, almost every tourist learns how to say hello: [i:3qlpnlz8]Sawat dee, kap/kaa.[/i:3qlpnlz8] (kap and kaa are gender-related) Thank you is quite simple, although there is a colloquial version: [i:3qlpnlz8]Khop khun, kap/kaa.[/i:3qlpnlz8] (formal) [i:3qlpnlz8]Khop jai.[/i:3qlpnlz8]...

    • Omystic commented : What about Phom La Kuhn? I love you? Jai yen yen, pronounced Chai yin yin, just means, slow it down, don't hurry, take it easy, or just the 1960's version of "be cool" could be where the coolness comes in....... I prefer the most used two words I give and get which is, Suoy Ma.....You are beautiful, and Im Ma.....I am full..... I like when I say Suoy Ma to my thai g/f or Phom La Kuhn and she smiles and says in perfect english, "I know"

    • morelam commented : Jai Yen Yen means that you want the one you are speaking to has to cool down if he is angry about something. Th oposit ist Jai roan, which means hot heart or somebody is getting very quickly angry.

    • dww33 commented : I do believe that "Jai Yen Yen" someone is telling you, you have a cold heart.

    • anna commented : To dww33, "Jai Yen Yen" is a colloquail word or phrase meaning take things slowly not rushing into making a decision or conlusion, or take time to think things through, if I understand it correctly as a Thai person. You just translated it word for word as in Jai = heart, Yen = cold, therefore cold heart as a result.

    • anna commented : [quote="sulasno":39dfgqs2]:lol: and I suppose jai ron maak means very hot heart [/quote:39dfgqs2] Jai Ron Maak is something you don't want to do as it means you are rushing into making dicision, conclusion, etc... depend on the situation and environment you are in, obviously it's the opposit to Jai Yen. I'm sure you know more about Thai language than you lead me to believe.

    • km091074 commented : [quote="dww33":2qwonn2w]I do believe that "Jai Yen Yen" someone is telling you, you have a cold heart.[/quote:2qwonn2w] as the weather heats up and the temperatures rise... jai yen yen may not be enough. cool heart is simple fan cooled. what you need is the air-con. jai air air.

    • km091074 commented : [quote="km091074":2sgs4n5t][quote="dww33":2sgs4n5t]I do believe that "Jai Yen Yen" someone is telling you, you have a cold heart.[/quote:2sgs4n5t] as the weather heats up and the temperatures rise... jai yen yen may not be enough. cool heart is simple fan cooled. what you need is the air-con. jai air air.[/quote:2sgs4n5t] and if you don't get your air-con, then you will be... arom sia. (bad mood).

    • 40 replies, 85,152 views

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